Category Archives: Debate

DRS – For or Against

Back in June I ran a debate and poll on the popularity of DRS. To my surprise, 63% voted in favour of the controversial system. Now the season draws to a close this weekend, I’ve decided to do the same again to see if the popularity of it has wavered at all. Like before, I’ll be putting the case against forward with Paul Havell telling us why he thinks it’s improved F1.

Firstly Paul and his case for: The FIA introduced a few changes for 2011, one of these being DRS or Drag Reduction System, the idea being that the cars would have a portion of the rear wing able to move at the drivers command and thereby reduce downforce for a limited amount of time in order to pass other cars on track.

I am a fan of DRS its made this years racing so much more spectacular, there have been some really good battles between not only the top 4 teams but lower down the grid too. DRS has allowed this. With rule being that a driver can only use his DRS when he’s within 1 second of the car in front its made for great racing with driver giving their all to get within that 1 second and then to be able to deploy the DRS

Those against DRS will tell you that it a phony pass if the DRS is used but I don’t see it that way, if a driver drives to get within that 1 second then passes with ease then its up to the driver that has been passed to keep within the 1 second and then re-pass, this equals more overtaking and hence more spectacle.

The constant use of DRS also has a great effect on the fragile tyres that the FIA put in place this year, so when Lewis has had to come from way down the grid like he has a couple of times this season he’s had to use his head a bit more to save the tyres, without constant downforce the make-up of the Pirelli tyre changes drastically and by making 7/8 places up on the grid by using DRS on the track will lose you something like 3 to 4 laps of tyre wear which the drivers and the teams have to factor into their strategies.

Simply put DRS is not a simple “push to pass” switch on the drivers steering wheel.It may look that way but when you break it down there’s a whole lot more going on and many more things to be taken in to consideration.

If it brings us racing like we’ve had this year then I for one say it should stay..

And my case against: It is fair to say that I’ve not been a fan of DRS from the outset. I see it as a handicap system that favours the chasing driver to the expense of the driver with track position.

While 2011 will undoubtedly go down as one of the most exciting on record and rightly so, it is more down to fantastic job that Pirelli have done as opposed to the rear wing letter box.

Statistics released by Mercedes GP reveal the truth, in 2009 there were 244 competitive overtakes and 547 in 2010. By the midpoint of this year, there had already been 653 passes on track but only 29% by the way of DRS! Which means without it, we would have approximately 900 overtakes at the end of the season without any driver being given an unfair advantage.

The Drag reduction system had little or no effect around Barcelona and Sliverstone, which I was happy to see but at places like Turkey saw as many as 50 (easy) passes completed half way down the straight.

I think the worst thing about DRS for me is the fact that it replaced the F-Duct, a truly innovative way to gain extra straight line speed. The F-Duct was banned on safety grounds, as drivers had to drive one-handed to activate it but surely it could have been modified to be activated via a button like DRS is! F1 is about innovation and that is one thing that DRS isn’t and has no place in F1.

 

Jenson’s Finest Race

On Sunday, Jenson Button will make his 200th Grand Prix Start. The Frome Flyer has had some very memorable races in his eleven years in the sport, but which was his best out of his 199 to date? Today to put their cases forward for their favourites, I’m delighted to welcome @Miss_F1 and returning for his second appearance on Marshall GP’s weekly debate @SebbyHaughtonf1. Please vote in the poll at the end of the debate. If your favourite isn’t there, please add it in the comment box below.

First up is @Miss_F1 - Hungary 2006

Jenson Button will this weekend, compete in his 200th grand prix. To date, Jenson has won ten races during his F1 career. But his first win was in 2006, at a wet Hungaroring, in a Honda no less.

The weekend started badly after a 10-place grid penalty for an engine change which left him in 14th. Myself, and I’m sure many others would agree, there looked to be little hope for the Brit to grace the top spot on the podium. How wrong we were…

The track was inundated with heavy rain allowing Button to quite easily pass many of his competitors in the early stages of the race on the Michelin tyre. By lap 10, Button was already in fourth. Button struck gold when front runners Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso retired from the race.

Raikkonen crashed into the back of Liuzzi’s Toro Rosso leading to the safety car to enter the track. Alonso’s substantial lead at the front, was obliterated. This paved the way for Button to take advantage and keep up with the Renault. Both drivers needed to pit for a second time but it was Button who came in first but only to re-fuel, whilst Alonso created a gap on a drying track. However, once Alonso pitted, his exit from the pits lost him the race after a wheelnut was insecurely fastened gifting the lead, and ultimately the win, to Button. For his final pit stop, Button finally changed to dry tyres and was able to cruise to the end.

With a combination of luck, correct tactics and talent, the underrated master of the rain went on to win the race with a lead of over half a minute. He was then followed by podium newbies, Pedro de la Rosa in 2nd and Nick Heidfeld in 3rd.

To read more from  @Miss_F1 visit her new blog at http://f1musings.wordpress.com/

Next up is @SebbyHaughtonf1 - Canada 2011

This weekend’s Hungarian Grand Prix will be Jenson Button’s 200th Grand Prix. A career full with great drives in half-a-dozen different cars. However the drive that sticks out for me is the Canadian Grand Prix in 2011, driving for McLaren-Mercedes.

Where do we start? He started 7th & didn’t have a good start and ended up duelling with his team-mate (Lewis Hamilton), who went for a gap that wasn’t there, and ended up crashing out, with Button surviving the collision but having to go into the pits. He made up places before a driver through penalty for speeding behind the safety car dropped him down again. He made up ground on the intermediate tyres after his 3rd trip through the pits, including passing both Renaults.

But when the race was stopped, Button was down in 12th. The race started again & he was in the pits again for intermediates again (because you have to be on full wets on a wet-safety car start). Jenson was early to do this, and gained places & was challenging 8th placed Fernando Alonso when the Spaniard came out of the pits; going into turn 3, Alonso went to close the door but Button was already there & they touched; Alonso was bumped out of the race causing another safety car & Button with a puncture was down in last (21st).

The fight back was now on. He passed cars like there was no tomorrow, like he was fighting for a title, passing Adrian Sutil & Pastor Maldonado in one corner, before going into the pits a lap earlier for slicks to get the under-cut. It worked & he knew where the grip was; he was passing the Renaults, Massa & Kobayashi & was 4th before another safety car backed the top 4 up. There were now just 5 laps left; he took advantage of Mark Webber missing the final chicane before using DRS to pass Michael Schumacher & then catching Sebastian Vettel. On the last lap, he pushed Vettel into a mistake & took the lead! He went on to win the Grand Prix.

No race of Jenson’s can beat that, surely?

To read more from  @SebbyHaughtonf1 visit his blog here  http://sebastianhaughtonf1.wordpress.com/

And finally @MarshallGP - Brazil 2009    

For me, Jenson’s greatest race wasn’t one that he won. It was the race that clinched him the world championship, Brazil 2009.

Jenson’s qualifying was compromised by a wrong tyre choice in Q2 which saw the champion elect start from a lowly 14th. To add to the pressure, his team-mate and closest championship rival was on pole position in front of his home support.

Button made a good start, managing to avoid several first lap collisions ahead of him and was running in 9th by the end of the first lap. Jenson started to pick his way through the traffic pulling off a great move on Grosjean around the outside of turn 6 before taking Nakajima into T1. Next up was the impressive debutant Kobayashi who frustrated Button for several laps. After eventually clearing him again into T1, Button started to gain good ground on his one stop strategy, leapfrogging several two stop runners in the process.

Coming into the closing stages of the race Button passed Kovalainen when he made his final stop and one more lunge into T1 on the Torro Rosso of Buemi had elevated him into 5th. With title rival Barrichello unable to capitalise on his pole position (eventually finishing 8th after a puncture), the pressure was off for the final laps and Jenson duly crossed the line in fifth position to become world champion.

I can’t remember who said it but this summed it up for me “A drive worthy of a world championship!” After being on the back foot for most of the second half of the year and with the pressure reaching boiling point. To produce a drive like that, throwing caution to the wind to claim the ultimate prize is why I regard this as his finest race.

Which Old Circuit Should Make a Come Back?

Formula One has lost many circuits over the years some were main stays of the championship for years others only flirting briefly with the sport. But which one would we most like to see back on the Calendar? Today’s guests, championing their favourite tracks are @GregoryHainesF1Motorsports editor at  http://www.gpupdate.net. Next up we have @Jimmyb_84 . motorsports reporter for http://www.motorstv.co.uk  .  

@GregoryHainesF1 : Bring Back the Red Bull Ring

Nowadays in Formula 1, debates tend to revolve around which tracks could be removed from the calendar to allow space for brand-new, Hermann Tilke-designed super circuits spanning all four corners of the globe. We already know, for instance, that facilities in India, the Unites States and Russia will be joining the calendar over the course of the next two years.

Another thing we frequently hear of is which classic venue one would return to – be it the original Nürburgring, Monza’s banked oval or our very own Brands Hatch. But what about the Red Bull Ring? Formerly known as the A1-Ring and (before that) the Osterreichring, the exciting thing about Austria’s only ever Grand Prix setting is that it could actually be back sooner than we think.

If you want pure battles, the track set in the picturesque Styrian mountains never failed to deliver. It’s got all you need for a wonderful motor race: the scenery, the drastic elevation changes, tight bends and fast sweepers. It also houses no more than eight corners. Yes, eight. Not like the generally unpopular Valencia Street Circuit which (officially) sports no less than 25 bends and is too stop-start in its nature.

The Red Bull Ring’s great selection of ups, downs and curves mean the lap actually flows. So cars can follow each other closely but won’t ever be a sitting duck, as there’s no overtake-aiding hairpin in sight. It allows for the close competition we all crave but without the slam dunk-style passes.

Talking of Valencia, you must remember that Spain’s chances for a second F1 race were boosted by ‘Alonso Mania’. So how fantastic is the thought that the Austrian track is owned by Dietrich Mateschitz – the same man whose name is behind the cars currently leading the championship.

@Jimmyb_84 : Bring Back the Old Hockenhiemring

I think this old circuit should be put back on the F1 calendar because-well it’s quite simple, because it’s dangerous. That is what makes Monaco and Spa brilliant tracks.

We watch F1 because of the speed and the danger that 22 drivers face every time they strap themselves in their cars. No one likes to see a driver getting injured or worse but if we’re honest, it’s the only reason we watch it because something might happen, Hockenhiemring had that in abundance.

After an epic Grand Prix in 2000 at the circuit where Barrichello won the race from 18th on the grid in changeable weather conditions, this seemed to be a problem for the FIA as all the overtaking had taken place away from the majority of fans. My solution would be-build stands where overtaking is possible it’s not brain science.

There was nothing wrong with the track-it wasn’t broke so they didn’t need to fix it (or make it worse) that danger has now gone from the venue. I want the old one back; we need that speed, a proper engine test and finally the search for the perfect setup on such a demanding track, a proper car killer.  We can’t have INDYCAR claiming to be the fastest motor sport on earth; we need this legendary circuit back on to shut them up. David Coulthard reached a speed of 224.8mph (361.8km/h) on the mile long straight we need that back! @Jimmyb_84 also has a new blog, read it here http://jamesfostermotorsportworld.blogspot.com

@MarshallGP : Bring Back Donington Park

To be honest, it took me a while to settle on Donington Park as my subject for this debate as I don’t want to take the British Grand Prix away from Silverstone. Then it dawned on me! The San Marino Grand Prix was at Imola (Italy), the Swiss race was at Dijon (France) and the Luxembourg Grand Prix was at the Nurburgring (Germany)

So I give to you the Isle of Mann Grand Prix at Donington Park! Donington Park deserves to be back on the race calendar for many reasons, The quality for the last (and only) race there in 1993 was an absolute classic and perhaps Ayrton Senna’s finest drive, but you don’t need me to tell you all about that.

It was the dream of the late Tom Wheatcroft to bring Formula 1 to Donington and although the circuit only hosted the European round of the championship for one year, he never gave up the hope of F1 returning.

Donington has been the scene of some great racing over the years thanks to its undulating landscape and one of the most challenging complex of corners in world motorsports. Speaking from experience the run down from the first corner, down through Hollywood and the Craner Curves towards the old hairpin is one of the most adrenalin pumping things you can do without jumping out of a plane.

I’ve visited Donington many times, watching touring cars, historic racing, World series by Renault or just to take a look around the museum. The one thing I’d like to see more than anything else would be another Grand Prix. The British fans deserve it, if there is a country in the world who’s fans can support two races it’s ours. Tom Wheatcroft’s memory deserves it and the circuit deserves it. So come on Bernie give Donington (and the Isle of Mann) a chance.

 

Alonso’s Next Team Mate

With Felipe Massa’s seat at Ferrari under threat (again), today’s debate and poll is looking into possible replacements. @MissBethAndrews  @DaveMorecambeF1 and myself are putting forward the case for three drivers we’d like to see as Alonso’s next team mate

@DaveMorecambeF1  Who would I like to see as Alonso’s new team mate? Good question and one I find quite easy to answer.Given his experience with Mercedes,and never too far away from the front of the field this year,and last year too,it has to be Nico Rosberg.

Although he retired from the 1st race in Australia this season,his placings have improved,gaining two 5th places in China and Turkey,11th in both Monaco and Canada,and a respectable 7th in Valencia.He is not one to be ignored,and the right car would no doubt further his ability to improve,and Ferrari could give him this.

On another note,him leaving Mercedes would produce an ideal slot for the talented Di Resta,sure to improve if he went to Mercedes.Having said this,would the likes of Alonso accept someone like Rosberg,younger(by 4 yrs) and keener.I personally dont see him as a real threat to Alonso,but more a threat to the other teams.

I cant see Rosberg improving much more this season with the Mercedes car, based on what he has already achieved,but Ferrari must really consider him a viable option for the future replacement of Massa.Give Rosberg a good car and Rosberg will bring in the good results Im sure.

Finally,you will have noticed no mention of Lewis Hamilton in this debate,that is because he really does not know what he really wants out of F1 at this moment in time,but Ferrari and Alonso are not the answer I fear.

read @DaveMorecambeF1 blog here  http://formula1andmclaren.blogspot.com/

@MissBethAndrews  When asked who I would pitch as Alonso’s next team mate at Ferrari I had a tough decision ahead of me. Due to Alonso’s no-nonsense attitude towards who is important within his team, he would need one of two drivers – one who was strong and could stand up to him, or one that was easily pliable and enabled him to be number one. Rattling through the drivers, my mind picked out Kamui Kobayashi and he is someone I would like to stick with.

Kobayashi is a driver that I have had copious amounts of respect for since he took over the seat of an injured Timo Glock in the Brazilian and Abu Dhabi grand prix’s of 2009 – later to become a team Sauber driver in 2010. Today he is named as one of the best over-takers on the grid, and that before the DRS came into effect.

I think that if Kobayashi was to go to Ferrari he would provide the power and mind set to push Alonso. He would not accept playing second fiddle but would force Alonso to prove who the better driver was. Kobayashi has time and time again overtaken Alonso and thoroughly enjoyed it, so at least the two of them would know where they stand.

Having met Kobayashi at the FOTA Fan Forum I got a better taste of the driver’s passion. He was listening intently to the engineering session from the platform above and once he had delivered his own section, with Lewis Hamilton, he ran straight back to stick his head in the championship car of Ayrton Senna. Kobayashi is a great asset to Formula One and any team, especially Ferrari, would be lucky to have him. What he lacks in experience he makes up for in pure love for the sport.

 

@MarshallGP  Who would I like to see as Alonso’s next team mate? Fernando may not like it too much but my choice is Vitaly Petrov. Petrov came of age as a Formula 1 driver in last years title deciding Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. He drove a faultless race keeping title chasing Alonso at bay for pretty much all of the race, denying him a possible third world crown. 

Without that stellar performance, he could well have found himself without a drive for this year and after he was confirmed to race again this year, many wrote off his chances. He was to silence his critics in spectacular fashion at the opening round in Melbourne, fighting his way up to third in the opening exchanges, then driving with great maturity to stay there.

Since Monaco, there has been reports of Bruno Senna coming in, not to replace Petrov, but his team mate Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick was expected to show his young team mate the way this year but that hasn’t turned out to be the case. I’ve always been a fan of Heidfeld and this only serves as further proof of the progress Petrov has made this year.

Petrov has quite a flamboyant style as have may of the GP2 graduates, this would go down very well with the tifosi who love drivers who give it their best shot and let it all hang out. Yes he is still prone to the odd off track adventure but to be honest, who does them better than him? I’m sure his ‘flight’ at Sepang will long live in the memory of all F1 fans!

He is evidently as ambitious as he is talented, he’s shrugging off his ‘pay driver’ tag with his strong performances this year (he’s only failed to qualify in the top 10 once!) I for one would love to see what he can do in a top team, I’m sure he’d continue to surprise, entertain and win races.

FIA For or Against

In this weeks discussion we are looking at the sports rule makers, the FIA to see whether they are still the right people to govern our sport or whether more decisive action on key matters would be achieved through self governance.

This week speaking up for the FIA we have  @EwanMarshall from  http://www.gpfocus.com, as last week there will be a poll at the end of the discussion plus the comment box for you to have your say,

FOR

Given the alleged corruption which has blighted its recent history, it is easy to assume that Formula One would be better off without the FIA. However, to remove the current governing body out of the equation would be the wrong decision as far as the sport is concerned.

The FIA acts as an independent organisation, tasked with ruling on controversial issues within Formula One and legitimising technical and sporting rule changes. Although the teams and other stakeholders sit on the World Motor Sport Council and the F1 Commission to work collectively on future changes, this is always done in full cooperation with the FIA which acts as arbiter.

One of the major weak points of forming a breakaway series would be the inability of the stakeholders (most likely the teams) to be able to governing fairly and cooperatively. As is well known, these outfits are competitive animals and will do anything to gain the upper hand innovatively on their cars. Therefore, would it really be possible for the most advanced teams to constantly make compromises to give the smaller teams a better chance without proper pressure applied from a law maker? Would new rules be able to be conjured up and implemented without entrants descending into argumentative chaos?

Throughout its history Formula One’s relationship with manufacturers has been a constant cycle. Unlike private constructors the participations of these companies in motorsport is dictated by the world economy – meaning that they cannot guarantee their long term commitment to the sport.

Ultimately, any new series would rely heavily on these manufacturers for credibility and financial support – but what would happen if another recession led to a mass pull out?

Undoubtedly any new championship would therefore have to establish an independent body to make sure that these fears were not realised. However, with the support of the world’s motoring bodies and having been a pioneer in safety on and off the track, the FIA already fits this role perfectly.

Neither the teams, the commercial rights holder or the governing body are perfect, but the current set up in Formula One allows for a series of checks and balances to form and these are upheld through the governance of the Federation.

Against

It is true, the teams (and Bernie) have always been in conflict with the FIA. There has been more threatened breakaways in the past every time there was a contentious issue! In 2009 when Jean Todt took over the presidency of the FIA, I for one (forgetting about his Ferrari past) was pleased as I always thought him to be a fair man who didn’t put up with any nonsense.

This unfortunately doesn’t seem to be the case with two major issues coming to a head recently. The first being the uprising in Bahrain that started back in March.  Although swift action was taken to postpone the race, many thought it better to cancel given the horrific scenes there.

The FIA showed non-committal they had become with the race being put on and off the calendar more times than my left leg doing the hokey cokey! A situation that could have been avoided if stronger leadership was shown from the start.

We have also seen the same level of indecisiveness over the new engine regulations. For over a year we have seen manufactures at logger heads over which way is best for the future of Formula one and the best relevance to their respective road cars. Again we have seen the FIA sitting back on this issue when they should be leading from the front.

As I write this I don’t know if I’m against the FIA in general or just the head man? I do believe that with the demise of the manufacture era, we are seeing more co-operation up and down the pit lane, more teams supplying other teams with parts, technology sharing partnerships and even sharing wind tunnels!

The FIA are doing its utmost to improve Formula 1′s image, in particular on green issues, but I can’t help but think that their lack of action, particularly on the Bahrain issue has done more damage to the sport than their green campaign will ever achieve. If a stronger stance on major points of contention isn’t taken in the future, we could see the credibility of the FIA slipping further giving FOA/FOTA a very strong hand in any future battle for power.

DRS- For and Against

There can be no doubt that the on track action this year has been superb! We are seeing more overtaking action in a single race than we’re used to seeing in a whole year thanks in no small part to the brilliant job Pirelli have done. KERS also has played it’s part this year, proving to be a great handicap for the teams without it. That leaves us with DRS! It’s fair to say that it too has made an impact this year but is it a good one?

I’ll be voicing the cases against DRS but first, championing it’s use is @Ausbeno  Editor of  http://thepurplesector.com/ .

The Case For

Love it or hate it the new DRS rear wing has changed the way drivers overtake in Formula 1.

Gone are the days of the “Trulli Train” and when a driver qualifies out of position and is not able to make his way back into the fight. DRS now gives the drivers a zone where overtaking the slower car in front is possible.

So how easy is it to overtake with DRS? Well it all depends on how the FIA have set up the zones. The FIA have said they are still on a steep learning curve as to how to set up the DRS zones and sometimes, it shows. We have had some cracking races; like China and Canada, where the zones worked perfectly and some poor ones; like Spain, where the DRS zone was set to far up the straight to give the attacking car any opportunity to make a pass.

But has DRS taken the skill out of overtaking? I don’t think so. There are still plenty of other spots on the track to hone your overtaking skills, and if you’re slow enough to let the car behind you get within that 1 second zone, I hope you know how to cover your line. We have seen Sebastian Vettel successfully defend against a DRS Enabled Lewis Hamilton in Spain and it had us all on the edge of our seats . Watching a car under attack and defending is much more exciting than watching a car effected by the wake of the car in front and unable to make a pass.

F1 has always been dynamic and exciting , and now DRS is adding to that by giving the fans what they ultimately crave; Epic battles with plenty of overtaking.

The Case Against

When I first heard that DRS was going to be introduced this year it was fair to say I was sceptical, and after the first seven races I feel that my misgiving’s about this artificial overtaking system have been justified.

The point of no return for me was at Istanbul, seeing manoeuvres completed way before turn twelve lap after lap didn’t get me anywhere near the edge of my seat and that is how I want to be as one car lines up another! Canada was by far and away the biggest DRS let down for me. Firstly we saw the FIA introduce two activation zones (double the pain for me) and secondly when the track dried out and the DRS was activated by race control it spoiled the fascinating battle between Schumacher, Webber and Button which saw the German getting mugged in the first DRS zone (the zone designed to close the cars up enough to enable a pass in the second one).

One of the magical aspects of F1 for the fans is finding out about what ingenious technical devices the team have hidden beneath the body of the car. DRS isn’t hidden, you can see it working and you know exactly when and where it will be activated!

In 2013 the FIA, FOM and FOTA have a great opportunity (one they missed in 2009) to bring in new rules that effectively reduce the aero dependency of the cars so they can follow each other in closer quarters, reducing the level of ‘dirty air’ the chasing car has to drive through.

DRS isn’t an innovation, it’s a gimmick that promotes artificial overtaking. Given the fantastic job that Pirelli has done with its tyre compounds and the continued KERS development (with its relevance on road cars) F1 doesn’t need this gimmick to spice up the show and I hope we see the back of it by 2013.